The Sugar Land 95: Meradeth Houston Snow on Restoring Identities Through Forensic DNA

Laura: Meradeth, it is so nice to have you back. I got a chance to talk to you last year at ISHI 34, and here you are with us at our 35th anniversary. How’s everything been?

Meradeth: Oh, very busy, but it’s great to be back. I it’s kind of a little mind blowing to me that I’m, like, speaking again. I can’t believe that, but I’m looking forward to it. It’s wonderful to be back here with you.

Laura: We’re so happy to have you. For our new viewers, maybe you could give us just a little bit of your background. Absolutely.

Meradeth: So, I am a professor at the University of Montana, where I run the Snow Molecular Anthropology Lab, also known as the SMAL. We are basically an ancient DNA integrated forensic DNA laboratory where we keep ourselves busy working on projects from all around the world and do a whole bunch of fun stuff. Everything from prehistoric Mexico to a lot of forensic work as we have moved into use utilizing FIGG. So, it’s been lots of fun. Keeps us super busy. But yeah, we have a good time.

Laura: It does sound like it’s super busy. Well, this year I’m so excited to see your presentation. You’re talking about the Sugar Land 95 and your work that you’re doing with them. Can you give us an overview of the project?

Meradeth: Oh my gosh. Yes, this project is massive. It was basically a cemetery that was discovered in 2018 with the construction of another building. And they exhumed the bodies at that point. And originally there was 95, hence the 95. There’s actually 101, but what happened was, is that the community rallied and really wanted to know what was going on with these individuals. It was discovered that they were from a convict leasing labor camp. So, post emancipation, where a loophole in the 13th amendment allowed for labor from convicts, and a lot of them were convicted of very trumped up charges and sent to these camps where they would then be like, well, the Sugar Land. They were working on sugar cane fields, and it was horrible labor, and a lot of them died. This is where they interred them. But nobody knows who’s who or who’s actually even there. And a lot of the families and descendants are really searching for what happened and wanting to know the truth about their ancestors, their family members, because they kind of were just disappeared. And it’s really awful.

Laura: The more and more I read about it in anticipation of this interview, the more horrific it became. And I feel like, you know, there hasn’t been enough public information about that out there. So, I’m very excited. I hope we can take this far beyond this interview, but what drew you to the work? How did you get involved initially?

Meradeth: That’s such a good question. In such kind of a strange, serendipitous situation. I was not the first lab that was contacted, and there was actually a different one, and they really struggled with the work, and five years later they didn’t have data. That was a really frustrating to the families, understandably. So, the organizers of this project, (they’ve been there from the start), Principal Research Group is made up of three women. So, they’re amazing: Katrina Whitley Banks, Abby Fisher, and Helen Graham are my lovely women that I just absolutely adore working with. They kind of cold called me. I got a phone call one afternoon. This is not out of the norm. I do get these pretty regularly. Like, “Hey, we have some individuals that we are looking to get DNA out of.” And they sent me one tooth and it was a test. It really was. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I had no problem getting the original DNA started. The process. Everything went great. We found three families within a couple of months. And because of that, then we undertook the process of changing labs, which was a big deal. And it took some time, but since the last year or so, since I came on board, we’ve been working toward funding the rest of the identities, and that’s been going really well.

Laura: That’s incredible. I mean, the pace that you were able to… I can’t believe… I don’t know, did you say five years to three months? I mean, that’s just remarkable.

Meradeth: We’re lucky that it was something that was very much in our wheelhouse. Right? Like, they kind of came to me and I was like, “Oh, my gosh, this is exactly what I do already.”

Laura: Well, let’s talk about that. You have a lot of experience with degraded DNA. And obviously we’re talking about seriously degraded DNA. More than a century old, I think, all of the cases. Yeah.

Meradeth: Definitely. At the very least a century. A few, probably more like 120. Which okay, so most of the stuff I was working with prior, like for my, my doctorate, my degree and things like that was 900 or 1000 or more (a few things I’ve worked on have definitely been in the few thousand range). So, I definitely knew my way around how to handle that sort of DNA, but it is very hard. It’s something that requires a lot of contamination control, so we have a clean room. We’re very careful about absolutely everything that goes on in there and how we handle the DNA from the start. The DNA itself is degraded both in terms of fragment length and then with the bases themselves. So, we’re always looking for methodology that allows for us to target tiny fragments that are going to be problematic. And luckily, we’ve developed some good methods to be able to do that.

Laura: You know, speaking of that, when you say problematic, what are some of the challenges you encounter when you’re doing a project like this?

Meradeth: Absolutely. So just basic amplification. Anything that we utilize right now in the lab is going to be PCR based, of course, but even with, you know, your next generation sequencing, all that has PCR in it. And so, if you have degraded bases, it makes it really hard. So, we’ve been able to come up with ways that target very small fragments and we’re utilizing kits. So, you do that and then we’re also developing methods that help to mitigate some of the effects of the degradation to begin with. So, dealing with broken strands, cross-linking, other stuff like that, working with polymerases and things that allow for us to get around some of the issues. Now nothing’s magic, but there definitely are ways that we can make it work.

Laura: Absolutely. I’m sure it takes a lot of collaboration as well. Are there others that you’re working with to work through some of the challenges?

Meradeth: Oh my gosh. Yes. Absolutely. So Principal Research Group to begin with, right? So, a bunch of individuals are also focusing in on the forensic anthropology side of things, which is great and builds on a lot of what we do in other sides of my lab and school as well. Then, of course, we are working with QIAGEN. I know this is a promo video, but they have been incredibly helpful in getting this off the ground. I cannot speak highly enough of some of the people that we’ve been working with. Rebecca, who has been our lab person, has been a big help in terms the ongoing problem solving that’s required for every sample being just a little different, a little bit tricky, in its own unique way.

Laura: Well, hey, we’re all for collaboration. And I think that’s what I love about this community is you see that everybody is working together for a common cause and, you know, justice and getting answers for the families. I’m sure community engagement is a big part beyond the science and something like this.

Meradeth: Oh my gosh. Yeah, it absolutely was essential for me right from the beginning. After we got the first DNA result and we had a meeting with everybody and we were going over, “Oh, this is what’s actually what we want you to do.” Beyond just the initial ethical questions that I’d had, getting to meet the individuals that we knew were family or that we knew were from the community was priority number one. So definitely something that I was very much engaged with from the beginning, and I have been really, really lucky to have everybody’s support to work through this process. I spent a lot of time talking with people giving little mini presentations here and there, putting stuff online so that people can go watch everything from some silly TikTok videos that I put together to some stuff we put up on the website that was more of a formal presentation on how this works. So, the communication goes both ways, where I can educate about what I’m doing and then also learn from them about their families, about what they want to know, and how they would like to honor their family members through the work and the identity restoration.

Laura: That’s incredible. And so, what has the reaction been and how have people found you and how have you found other descendants? How does that happen? I think people would be interested to know.

Meradeth: Definitely, and honestly, I’m not the front line on the reaching out and talking to people, that’s definitely PRG. I’m the “let’s find what we can from the data”. And then we have our genealogists who are amazing, and have been doing so much work, especially the last few weeks. I am greatly indebted to them for being able to come prepared to this conference, and they have asked to be anonymous. Otherwise, I would be giving them kudos. But I definitely have found that, you know, working together and doing all these sorts of research projects with them to ensure that we were communicating and constantly putting stuff out has been a really big help and really helped to understand families that we know of, to understand what’s up now. As we continue this project, there’s definitely going to be new individuals brought in who will then be contacted by PRG and asked if they would like to continue. It’s very much something that is on their decision-making process. I recognize that some people feel concerned about some of this. It’s hard news to hear what might have happened to an ancestor of yours. So, all I can do is provide the information and then hope that through that, people can really realize the strength that these individuals had to have to withstand what they dealt with in these horrible camps, and hope that lends strength as opposed to misgivings or other issues that can potentially arise that we haven’t seen yet, but have been a little bit worried about.

Laura: That makes sense because, of course, you want to honor the memory and there are many ethical considerations. So, you know, you were just alluding to that. What have you come upon or what are you preparing for in that sense?

Meradeth: Absolutely. So, there was a piece in the Houston Chronicle a couple of months ago? I can’t remember now. But, yeah, some individuals who didn’t understand the process have definitely raised concerns about, say, an ancestor being placed into a database who would then help in the conviction of a modern day individual, which understandably, something that individuals would be concerned about. Of course, that’s not really how the process works. In terms of utilizing individuals’ DNA from the past and using that for a network today, they’re not placed in that sort of database. So, what we’re trying to do is educate and just make sure that everybody understands that. Individuals are very concerned about privacy and having individuals placed into more public spaces when that may not be what individuals want. So, we’ve been very, very careful about how we present information, how we go about alerting family members when we do identify new individuals. And so far, everybody’s been so excited, I think, to learn about, and from the Zoom meetings I get called into which we have every month or two, everybody’s just become such a big family. Everybody who has ancestors in the Sugar Land area or were at the camp itself. They’ve been having picnics and barbecues and things like that and getting to know one another and really extending their family’s circle with these individuals. And it has been really amazingly heartwarming to watch. I’m so happy that this was able to facilitate a situation where these individuals got to meet each other through tragedy, yes, but also learning their strength from that.

Laura: What a beautiful thing to have people coming together after the fact. And what an interesting project. I mean, it really encompasses every phase, you know, from working with the degraded samples to the genealogies connecting people and then people connecting together. I can’t wait to hear more about it in your presentation.

Meradeth: Thanks. Me too.

Laura: It’s definitely not the only thing you work on when it comes to forensic DNA analysis. Is there another project? Maybe you can share something else that you’ve worked on or will be working on?

Meradeth: Yeah, definitely. So, we’ve got a lot going on in my lab, but the other person that I definitely need to make sure I mention is Haley Omeasoo. She was here with me being interviewed last year and she’s just fantastic. And I’m hoping she’ll be able to finish up her PhD this school year. So that’s amazing. We have been progressing with her database building for the Blackfeet Tribe, and she’s actually going to be here at ISHI with a booth for Okhomi Forensics, which is her nonprofit that she has started as a Native forensic lab. And so, she’s been doing this incredible work, and I have been so happy to watch her become such a powerhouse with her ability to bring forensics to the Native American community and in an accessible, approachable way. And I’m a very, very tiny part in that, but it’s a project that I am extremely proud of, to be honest.

Laura: It was a fascinating interview last year, and maybe you can even just summarize it really briefly. I would love to get people involved in both projects if they’re watching.

Meradeth: Totally. Yeah. So, Haley Omeasoo is putting together a database of Native American individuals; DNA that they will then have sovereign rights to allowing for searches against that database with permission to allow for identifying MMIW or MMIP (Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women or Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons). This epidemic of these individuals going missing and not being identified. Their crime scenes not necessarily being analyzed to the same standards that we might see elsewhere. It’s a lot of issues, and she’s trying to bridge that gap between the forensic world and some of the reservations as well. So, she’s just doing incredible work. It’s quite fascinating.

Laura: It was fascinating to hear about it and to see your support and where that’s gone and what you’re working on now. It’s incredible.

Meradeth: I try really hard. Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely not me, though. It’s the students that are absolutely amazing. And I’m just lucky to be here to kind of be a support.

Laura: That’s so kind of you to say that. I think probably they would say it works both ways. I mean, given all this experience that you’ve had, are there emerging trends that you see coming in your field?

Meradeth: Yes, definitely. Next Generation Sequencing is just going to continue to be more and more important. I do not see that abating in any way. I very much hope that through my lab, you know, I’m training the next generation of individuals who can do that sort of work easily. Simply, it’s not hard, but I now recognize that it needs training. Also really looking forward to seeing more epigenetic work enter the world of forensics. I think that it has a lot of potential. And I’ve been really enjoying the work of Doctor Sarah Zapico, who is doing some really cool stuff with aging. I have a student who’s doing some cool things along that same trend and I think there’s a lot of potential there, and I’m really looking forward to see where it goes.

Laura: I absolutely agree with you. I’m fascinated by epigenetics. Maybe you could just give a quick summary for anybody who’s watching, who doesn’t quite know what it is.

Meradeth: Totally fair. So, as we go through our life and through different experiences (natural and unnatural), with aging being the big one… Where I’m seeing this play out the most is the methylation patterns, or how our genes are turned on and off (I think of them as little light switches), are going to be altered naturally through time. And so, what we see is a pattern of methylation, particularly as individuals age, that can actually be then assessed, allowing for age of death to be estimated far more accurately than what we can do morphologically. So, when I go and look at a skeleton, I can utilize a variety of different methods to be like this is how old they were. Once you hit adulthood, it’s kind of these very large… Like, well, they were an adult, and that’s not super helpful sometimes. But with this testing, it’s possible then to actually look at the pattern of light switches, if you want to think of it that way. That’s the most basic. Please don’t hate me for it, anybody who’s listening to this, who knows what I’m talking about.

Laura: We have a wide audience, so I think that’s good. I think that brings other people in who might be thinking about the field.

Meradeth: Yeah, but it allows for us to be able to, like, really home in far further into especially adult age, you know, narrowing it down. And I think the last talk I heard from Sarah was like, she’s down to two years on teeth, which is kind of mind blowing, especially when I’m very well versed in the morphological stuff. And, man, it’s, you know, like 30 years. So that sort of window is amazing to narrow down.

Laura: It’s incredible what happens just year to year when you think about what’s happened in a decade. It’s beyond what anyone could have imagined, I think. I know you cross some interesting lines, because you’re working on academic research, but then you also have some high-profile forensic cases that become part of it. How do you balance the two and make that work?

Meradeth: That’s a great question. I was looking at that earlier and I was like, “Oh man, I don’t know.” It’s an excellent question. I was like, “Yeah, how do I balance that?” Sometimes, not very well. I try really hard. I joke about the Snowstorm. Right? Of all of my graduate students, and I’m very, very blessed with amazing people I work with. That’s how I handle a lot of it, a lot of delegation.

Laura: Delegation is always good. It never hurts. Let’s go back to degraded DNA. What do you see coming next in the field?

Meradeth: Oh, my goodness. I think that our methods are just getting better and better with being able to establish methodology that is allowing for us to analyze degraded DNA. I’m looking, and seeing, single cell sequencing get more and more effective, especially with degraded DNA. We were toying with tinkering with that in my lab. We’ve definitely started a few little things here and there. We tried a decade ago, or maybe not quite that long, but it didn’t have a whole lot of success. But things have changed leaps and bounds. And, obviously with the ability to bypass PCR, you lose some of the issues with attempting to get at low quantity DNA and degraded DNA. So that would definitely be super amazing. I would love to see it get better. And I know that there’s a lot of people working on it, so we’ll see. I think that that would be super, super fun.

Laura: I hope I get to talk to you about that in the future. Yes.

Meradeth: We’ll see.

Laura: We’ll definitely see. So, Meradeth, you have been to our conference a number of times, and given it’s our 35th anniversary, I would love to hear what you’re looking forward to. What brings you back? What makes it valuable for you?

Meradeth: I love coming to this conference. It is incredibly helpful in terms of learning new methods, just seeing what’s going on. I feel very invigorated afterwards. I always learn something new, always have new thoughts in terms all the different methods to try or people to talk to. It’s kind of like coming to meet your people for a few days and grow, but also unwind a little bit. So, there should be some fun things. I love the opening social, which is super great, and all the other good stuff that we do. But it’s this wonderful mix of learning and also not necessarily being at the lab bench the whole time. So, getting to kind of let loose a little, maybe.

Laura: So, I love hearing about what’s cutting edge and then seeing everyone get a chance just to spend time together.

Meradeth: Yeah. It’s so, so helpful and so important that I think a lot of us…

Laura: Need that support in this field. 100%.

Meradeth: Absolutely. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. It’s not easy. Hey, did we miss anything that you want to be sure we include?

Meradeth: Oh, my goodness. Somebody would give me some more money? I would love that. That’s about it.

Laura: We’re trying to work on that..

Meradeth: For sure. I swear that I never thought that my job would end up being grant writing, like, 90% of the time, but that’s not forever.

Laura: Yes, I in my writing career have written a number of grants for different people. And yes, I feel for you. And that’s your percentage. Ouch.

Meradeth: Yeah, yeah, it gets a little exhausting after a while. Yeah, but we’re good. You know, gotta have money to do some cool stuff. Absolutely.

Laura: It’s so true. Well, thank you so much, Meradeth. It’s really been a joy talking to you again. And I’m so excited to hear more.

Meradeth: My pleasure. Absolutely. And I love doing this. So, I’m very grateful to be back.

Laura: Good. I hope you’re back again and again.

Meradeth: Me, too.