Breaking Barriers in Forensics: Anna Barbaro on Empowering Women and Demystifying True Crime

Laura: Anna, thank you so much for joining us this year at our 35th anniversary. We really appreciated the presentation and the panel that you took part in this morning. Before we get started talking about that and the organization that you’re president of, why don’t we just talk a little bit about your background and what brought you to the point you are today?

Anna: Yeah, sure. Thank you very much for the invitation. I am a forensic geneticist. I have a PhD in forensic genetics from the University of Santiago de Compostela in Spain, and a degree in biological sciences and a master’s in forensic investigation. And, since many years, I am working in a forensic laboratory in the south of Italy named CMF. It’s a criminalistics laboratory. And we collaborate with Italian prosecutors in real forensic case works. And obviously, I work as a DNA expert for prosecutors in several forensic experts, DNA identification of biological samples taken at the crime scene and also sometimes in paternity cases. So, I have many years of experience in this field.

Laura: Absolutely. And then today, you were able to talk a lot about your organization, the Worldwide Association of Women Forensic Experts. So, tell us a little bit about that and how that was founded.

Anna: I founded the Worldwide Association of Women Forensic Experts in 2011, when I realized that all the most important international forensic associations were made up by men and they were on the board, they were the presidents. So, I thought that it was necessary to do something different. And the idea was to create WAWFE with the aim to favor women involved in forensics, the recognition of their role, and especially in the countries in development where women are still discriminated against, not only in the job market but also in society, in their real life. And obviously, the other aim of WAWFE is to connect forensic experts all over the world, so to favor the diffusion of forensic science.

Laura: You’ve made great strides in empowering women through this organization. Can you talk about some of the initiatives and things that it does that help in that area?

Anna: Yeah, we organize several activities, events such as webinars, a conference and meetings and many of them online all over the world, because we have 25 coordinators in South America, in USA, in Europe, in Asia. And this allows us to organize several events all over the world, sometimes seamlessly. And this is relevant for women in order to give them the opportunity to share experience. And for example, I created the International Forensic Women Day with the aim to recognize the job of forensic women and to celebrate them. And during this day we organize round tables to discuss women in forensics and their problems in different countries. And this is really interesting. I thought this is really interesting. People want to share their problems, their ideas. And obviously another important activity of WAWFE is their campaign against violence against women. And we organize several webinars during International Women’s Day, and we want to check the situation in different countries.

Laura: Absolutely. When you’re hosting some of these roundtables and speaking with women, what are some of the challenges they’re facing in those male dominated environments?

Anna: We see that woman in some countries, for example, in South America or in Asia still have this problem at a high level, I unfortunately have to say. And they want to learn what is the situation in other countries and how they can face this problem.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s such important work that you’re doing, and we’re so excited to learn more about your organization. Now, the panel today was interesting, and it talked about the impact of the true crime phenomenon. How do you think that’s impacting women who are entering the field?

Anna: I think that true crime is an interest of common people and of women towards forensic science, but sometimes the expectations are too high in comparison with the real life. And, in my opinion, women watch TV series such as Law and Order, Special Victim Unit or Bones, and they identify with these beautiful girls being able to work and to resolve many cases. And they want to do something similar. They want to collaborate for justice because, in my opinion, women have a nice sense of justice and they identify with the victims, because very often victims are women. And so, they want to collaborate, to want to give their own experience or their support to solve cases.

Laura: Absolutely. Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about in prior years the CSI Effect. And how do you see us sort of explaining to people who want to come into the field that it doesn’t work overnight? It’s not quite that easy. The science takes a bit of time.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. So, the CSI Effect is almost negative because it increased the interest of people, of students, to our forensic science. But most of them believe that forensic science is something easy. That it’s possible to perform, for example, DNA analysis in just one hour to obtain a result, a DNA profile to compare, which is useful to solve the crime. But the reality is totally different. For example, when I received students at my laboratory, I saw many times that they were confused. There was a confusion between theory and practice, and when they went with me, for example, to a crime scene or when they participated at an autopsy, it wasn’t always that they felt good. They had a bad sensation, and some of them decided to lose the career and to change because in that situation, they understood that reality is different from TV shows.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. How do you think we’ll be able to change that? Or what do you see as the evolution of true crime in the media and, you know, solving it in reality?

Anna: I think that true crime media in the future will still have an impact on people and influence people. But I think and I hope people are just starting to understand the difference between show and reality.

Laura: Absolutely.

Anna: So, the impact will be less in the future.

Laura: Yeah, I think it is becoming a little bit more realistic, but it’s still difficult. What is your organization going to be doing in the future? I’d love to talk about programs that are coming up to help empower women and draw them into the field for the right reasons.

Anna: We are always in expansion. And so, we are looking for new coordinators in countries where now there are no coordinators, especially in emerging countries, where women there have many problems and we organize an international conference each year. This year it was online, but we are planning a big conference for the next year in Spain.

Laura: That sounds wonderful. And I didn’t realize how many coordinators you already have and that you’re looking for others. So that will certainly have a big impact.

Anna: And WAWFE has two official languages, English and Spanish. And this is really crucial, because this allows people from South America that sometimes have problems with the language to join the association.

Laura: Yeah. I really think that having more languages involved in all aspects of this is beneficial. We need to expand that, so I’m happy that you are doing that. What kind of legacy do you want to leave through this organization that you founded?

Anna: I hope that for the future, the message, the legacy of my association is the possibility of a good collaboration between women. That is not so easy as it appears. And also, that men, because in WAWFE there are many men that support women in their development and in their activities. And in fact, we have very good coordinators who are men and they support us very, very well.

Laura: That’s wonderful. Well, I’m so excited that you were able to talk about it today and bring it to this audience, and hopefully that helps continue to expand it. Have you attended ISHI before?

Anna: No, and this is a very great experience and I’m really happy to be here today with all of you.

Laura: Well, thank you so much for coming here. We really appreciate it. I so enjoyed your talk today and the panel and everybody will be able to now watch this and get a little taste of that as well, even if they weren’t able to attend.

Anna: Thank you so much for the invitation.

Laura: Thank you, Anna. We really appreciate it.

Anna: It’s a pleasure.